Politics is Stupid

general
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I’ve seen a lot of things that irritate me.

Fast and Furious, Benghazi, the IRS election mongering, Obamacare… etc.

All of these things are issues I have with either Obama, or Democrats, or Progressives. I’ll throw the odd curse word their way, or occasionally mention Oblahblah, or call a progressive a socialist, or something like that. I guess I call them idiots a lot too.

I just flat out don’t understand how and or why Tea Party activists are racist, misogynist, racist, elitist, tea bagging, non-human persons.

How are the Koch brothers worse than George Soros?

Why is it that it takes Martin Brashir going as far as almost saying he wants Palin to eat shit for there to be an uproar? Rush calls some dippy chick a slut and people have heart attacks and start a riot, call a conservative woman or minority any name you’d like, it’s cool. And white men invented all the evils, so you can dump on them all day.

It’s a form of propaganda that meets or beats anything the US came up with in WWII, and comes close to something a more fascist environment would come up with. Dehumanizing the enemy is an important tool in war. I feel like as a libertarian/conservative that our side isn’t fighting a war, while the other one is. We’re under totally different rules of engagement. Like getting in a fight with a woman if you are a gentleman. She can kick you in teh balls, but don’t you dare use more than strong language, and not a lot of that.

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Saw another good example this morning. A bunch of topless women spray painting, spiting and kicking at a group of men who are praying. I don’t believe it was in the US, but the same thing applies.

Imagine if a group of men attacked a group of women like that. Or the preacher who got attacked at the gay rights parade. How would people react if a man holding a “Breeders!” sign got attacked at a hetero parade? How would people react if there even was a straight parade in the first place?

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[quote=“Woodman, post:1, topic:556”]Like getting in a fight with a woman if you are a gentleman. She can kick you in teh balls, but don’t you dare use more than strong language, and not a lot of that.[/quote]If someone attacks me then I will fight back regardless of their gender. If they are not being a lady then why should I be a gentleman? :wink:

[quote=“Woodman, post:2, topic:556”]
How would people react if there even was a straight parade in the first place?
[/quote]Firstly, there is no need for a hetero rights parade because hetero rights are pretty much enshrined - gay rights are not, which is why the need for their parades.
If people did have a hetero rights parade and someone deliberately tried to provoke them, then that person can hardly complain if they get provoked.

I don’t know the circumstances of the spray painting issue, but in some countries women get treated a whole lot worse than that. In some countries I’d probably consider joining them.

All that said, I tend to agree with you that in some circumstances things have gone way too far. Most of the situations you mention in your first post I think are unacceptable double standards, but I’m not sure how to fix it.

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I agree that there is no need for a hetero “rights” parade, privilege there is pretty established. But, a hetero pride parade is something that could exist. Even if gay marriage were federally approved and every barrier removed there would still be Gay Pride parades, seriously, some of those things are just too fun to stop doing. Even if some of them give lip service to gay rights, if all things were equal they’d still have them.

I dunno, look at Miss Black/Asian/Latino America, just about every minority has won the Miss America contest, could you imagine the stink at a Miss White America? Hell, it even makes me think of a group of Neo Nazi skinheads picking Miss Fuhrer.

If you are concerned about news reporting then you’d hold back. Man Breaks Woman’s Nose, is the headline. Doesn’t mention the 20 minutes she was hitting you with a brick first. As much as I jump on police brutality, they really get the shaft on this sort of thing. Police Taser 15 year old, who has down’s syndrome and was swinging a baseball bat and had already taken out his mom. Police tackle mentally ill senior citizen, who had a chef’s knife and already cut three people. Police shoot several random people in a crowd in attempt to stop mentally ill man from roaming in traffic… yeah, that one really is shite.

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[quote=“Woodman, post:4, topic:556”]
But, a hetero pride parade is something that could exist
[/quote]Yep, and as I said, if someone comes in deliberately disrupting and provoking then they had better expect people to react.

[quote=“Woodman, post:4, topic:556”]
look at Miss Black/Asian/Latino America, just about every minority has won the Miss America contest, could you imagine the stink at a Miss White America?
[/quote]Yeah, that one is a really tricky situation. As you say, a Miss White America does conjure some pretty horrible images. I don’t have an answer to that. Minorities have events like that because they are minorities and because they are often discriminated against and it’s a way to celebrate who and what they are. I am not in a minority group so I find it hard to completely understand the thinking and feelings behind it all.

[quote=“Woodman, post:4, topic:556”]
If you are concerned about news reporting then you’d hold back
[/quote]I’m not concerned at all. I know that reporting can be extremely slanted and I don’t give a toss. I stand by what I said - if someone attacks me then I defend myself. If the news outlets misreport it then that’s their problem.
That said, if someone who is half my size attacks me then I may well just restrain them and call the police. Knocking them down is not a given :grinning:

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Yet. It will be really interesting when caucasians aren’t the majority in America. Watching what is happening in some European countries with low birth rates and high immigration it’s somewhat chilling to think of France, for example, with a population that’s minority French.

I don’t think it will be as big of a deal here, I have more in common with a black man, or third generation Mexican immigrant, and America has a reputation for absorbing everything almost as much as China does. It’s handy living somewhere that doesn’t have a “race” attached to the nationalism. I’m American, my Asian adopted neighbor is American, my black co-workers are American, even a man with a Kenyan father and an American mother is just as American as I am.

If everyone in America ends up a general mocha color with almond eyes I’m not going to be offended or worried at all, since we’ll all still have America, Fuck yeah!

I guess this only has weight as a stand in, you and I don’t have much to lose if we were in a situation like that, and anyone that might care we could tell the real story to. From a political standpoint, the public opinion is set from the news coverage that people read about it. If MSNBC ran a story saying Rahm Emanuel beat a woman, people would forever think of him as a woman beater, regardless of why.

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Thank you, oh Fed, for providing yet another handout poor Credit policy that I, just barely, cannot apply for. And yet, you explicitly state that it has no effect on welfare, food stamps, Section 8 Housing, or other “temporary assistance for needy families”. As it goes, a good chunk of these folks are taking more home than I ever will. Now these folks have an even lesser tax burden whilst folks like me scrounge to pay for their programs.

(My In-Laws are on the housing plan and they pay ~$80 for rent depending on how many hours they worked; mine happens to be $1670). And my In-Laws still wonder why we can’t afford standard Cable TV, or a nice dinner out. We make so much more money than them, you know.

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Leeland Yee. We have some people here that are pretty diverse in their leanings and new houndedness.

Without googling, how many of you know anything about this man?

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Wooidman, Leland Yee is a California state Senator who represents San Francisco and the surrounding area. He’s known out here as a gun control zealot but recently got popped for working with some gangsters in SF’s Chinatown to help them, yep, sell guns. Said gangsters also have possible triad ties. His voting record is in line with the district he represents, which means he’s all for the nanny state and wants to ban/regulate everything. He’s like Nancy Pelosi but at the state level. He was considering a run for governor, I believe, but that probably won’t happen now. IMO, he’s a shining example of everything that is wrong with this state.

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Awesome, glad someone out there besides me knows about this dude. I think he was running for secretary of state. I read today that the supposed bribes line up with his votes pretty well.

The indictment reads like a B movie plot. And yet, Cristie and his bridge fixation is getting more press time.

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Ok, why am I supposed to rush to Nevada to defend a rancher who was illegally grazing his cattle on public land without paying usage fees?

I mean really. I don’t approve of the way the Feds are handling it now, but it’s no more than I expect from the people who gave us Ruby Ridge and the Waco BBQ. I can also jump on board the whole, who sold the land to the Feds in the first place, and why the hell does so much state land belong to the federal government? And I hate the very idea of 1st Amendment zones. You want to strap yourself to a cow and roll around the countryside, go for it, same as the people who tie themselves to trees. You’re an idiot and you will get arrested, but whatevs.

But bitching because some dude was getting free grazing rights is kind of out there. There are also plenty of professional protestors there from what I’m hearing, so what is this supposed to prove?

Don’t these guys have a raw milk operation to shut down or something? I’m sure there is an unauthorized lemonade stand nearby… Shit! That’s my form of protest, I’ll start hawking goods at protests without a license. Sodas, snacks, clean underwear, flea repellant.

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If I saw a bunch of half naked women spray painting something I might be inclined to help, but hey I’m a perv so sue me!

As for a straight parade why not? Why shouldn’t we celebrate the contributions straight people have made to society?

I’d join a straight parade as I’m not ashamed of what I am,just as gay people shouldn’t be ashamed of what they are!

:gb:

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So when did “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it” become “I disapprove of what you say, and will fight to the death to prevent you saying it”?
The actions taken over the new (and now former) Firefox CEO were nothing short of intolerance themselves - or does tolerance only cut one way?

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There is no such thing as free speech. Nor is there such a thing as tolerance.

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Tell the former head of Mozilla that.

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Not a free speech issue. A tolerance one. The usual horde of “tolerant” people saw something they didn’t like and descended.

The mistake was thinking that because they were Mozilla they were immune to what people tried to do to Chick-Fil-A.

All this for having the same position Mr. Obama held until the fall of 2012, or the one Hillary Clinton held until around the same time, who’s husband signed the DOMA in the first place. A position opposite that of Mr. Cheney in 2008.

The precedent is not a good thing. Blackballing and McCarthyism are not good, no matter who is leading the mob.

People have created litmus tests for humanity, if you don’t pass them, then you are othered. What belief do you hold today that could get you pilloried in 6 years? I believe that marriage is a contract between individuals, a legal document that the government has no hand in other than to enforce.

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Definitely a tolerance issue rather that a free speech one. It seems to me that people with religious beliefs are required to be tolerant of everyone else, but nobody else is tolerant of religious beliefs (okay, that’s an oversimplification, but that’s certainly how it seems).

I completely agree with Woodman here - the precedent is appalling. Who gets to decide who is allowed to be a human?

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Considering the fact that it’s the “Everyone’s opinion is equal” crowd that took him down I think it’s a travesty and proves that these people are the same as the Moral Majority and don’t really care about caring, or inclusiveness, they just wanted it their way instead of the old way.

Now that they are making serious headway in the cultural battle the gloves are coming off. It doesn’t matter why he supported prop 8, maybe he wants to eliminate all marriage, but they don’t care, it’s a weapon they can use against someone to keep the rest in line. Equality and acceptance aren’t good enough, you must rejoice at it at the end of a club.

It’s not like this is a new head of a LGBT org that did this, or a automaker head that “isn’t a car guy”, or a anything opposed to the group’s charter here. It was a personal choice this man made, while working with several members of the community who never knew he held this belief. Until he was outed by someone else.

I put forward that it doesn’t matter how unified or organized they put him forward. This would have happened no matter what.

BTW, the CEO of OKCupid that started this, he supported a senator who voted against same sex marriage. So, whatever. Good free advertising by riding the tiger there.

This just makes me angry, it makes me angry when my side does it, but it makes me even more angry when the tolerant people do it, while screaming for tolerance.

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It seems to me that people with religious beliefs are required to be tolerant of everyone else, but nobody else is tolerant of religious beliefs (okay, that’s an oversimplification, but that’s certainly how it seems).

Preemptive disclaimer: Not accusing anyone here of anything, just making the counter-argument.

The problem comes when someone else thinks that their religious beliefs give them a magical power that allows them to override the rights or freedoms of anyone else. I’m fine with it if someone’s religious beliefs state that something is wrong. That’s what they believe, and they’re allowed to believe whatever they want. The instant that belief turns into action specifically intended to prevent other people from doing that thing, that person is no longer a person, but a tyrant.

I saw the relentless comments on the Ars articles about this, and almost all of them seemed to boil down to this. His beliefs weren’t the main issue there, it was the fact that he personally donated money to a cause to prevent gay marriage, thus forcing those beliefs on others.

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I think you are overstating things calling him a tyrant. He was donating to a cause to support a law that he thought was right.
Let me give another scenario. I believe that riding a bike without a helmet is a really stupid thing to do and I donate to a cause that is trying to make it a legal requirement. I don’t ride a bike so the law won’t affect me, does that make me a tyrant because I’m trying to override the rights and freedoms of other people?
If you take the religion out of it then it starts to look a little silly.

Have a read of this article. That states my position far more eloquently than I could.
It’s to be expected that right-wing commentators will be slamming the actions resulting in the resignation, but one of the people quoted in that article was advocating same sex marriages back in 1989.

This quote sums it up for me:

“Will he now be forced to walk through the streets in shame? Why not the stocks?” he wrote, adding that “The whole episode disgusts me – as it should disgust anyone interested in a tolerant and diverse society.”

“If this is the gay rights movement today – hounding our opponents with a fanaticism more like the religious right than anyone else – then count me out,”

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