True that, but dropping a rock from moon orbit would do a bit more than a crowbar from FEO, and cleaner than dropping a nuke.
Donāt get me wrong here, I know there are issues with the US. But weāre the best of the lot as far as super powers, or great powers, or whatever metric you want to use.
Out of the big three China, Russia, and the US: I think weāve killed the smallest number of our own people. And the wars weāve initiated have killed less people than some of the battles Russia and China have had in their history.
Itās not like Australia, Norway, Iceland, New Zealand, or some other non expansionist country is in position to make a run for space.
Our politicians have enough space between their ears to hold an entire universe.
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Iāve been out a few days, and am only part way through this thread, but I donāt see @Woodman as being in the wrong here. I do see @ClockWorkXon repeatedly putting himself in āthe crosshairs.ā It reminds me a Bugs Bunny cartoon - wabbit season, duck season, wabbit season, duck season, duck season, rabbit season FIRE FIRE!! Except that it is more like, āBlah, blah blah, look at me, Iām different. Oh my gawd, youāre pointing out that Iām different! I feel hated, so you must be evil!ā It sounds to me like someone canāt accept the fact that others might not give a shit.
It seems like @Nabiki or someone else on here also lives in the same area, but I donāt recall them talking about how everyone in the city makes their life miserable. If one canāt get along with anyone they meet, what/who is the common denominator.
Bridge, water, woosh. Some terrain is non-negotiable for one perspective or another, but we can try to respect that and discuss that squishy middle ground like adults.
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Not to side-track the spacey-colonization stuff, but work just sent out a āCorrected Policyā.
Weāre no longer a Non-smoking Workplace. Weāre Tobacco-free. Apparently, itās politically incorrect to be a health insurance company and condone vaping (vapeing, vape-ing? Ugh, they all look wrong to me!)
Now, Iām not a smoker/vaper (syntax error!), but I can see where this is just another company sticking itās nose where it shouldnāt. The whole point and purpose of non-smoking environments were to protect those who shouldnāt be subjected to the aftermath of a cigar/cigarette. From what I understand, thereās no ill-effects of vaping in the presence of another person (but again, I donāt vape, so I probably donāt know enough to speak on it). Is it contradictory to have a health insurance lady who smokes on a daily basis when the sole purpose of the company is to promote good health while protecting you when [some] medical sh!t hits the fan? Not in the 90ās it wasnāt.
Maybe itās just the sign of the times, but this kind of policy making is irritating. GTFOMY.
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I donāt have any proof [edit: proof that it is or isnāt safe, or seen any indication that the safety has or hasnāt been researched], but I have been around a vaper, and I donāt entirely buy into the premise that it is completely clean, so to speak. The argument I heard was that you canāt see the smoke/residue/whatever when they exhale. But, you can still smell it. If you can smell it, then there isnāt nothing there.
For reference, Iām not a militant non-smoker. I quit smoking cigarettes, geez, almost ten years ago? But I donāt have a problem sitting in the bar/smoking section when we go to BWW, and still enjoy a good cigar on the rare occasion. That said, after being around a couple people vaping for a couple hours, I could feel enough effect to be nauseous.
Hah, in the 90ās the health benefits administrator I worked at still let you smoke at your desk before 8 and after 4:45. We had to work an extra 15 minutes a day for the privilege. We didnāt go totally non-smoking in the building until 2005.
Iām sure it makes a difference what they are vaping. I know some people are actually vaping almost pure water, itās a mechanical addiction to them thatās better for them than lollipops. Iāve been around someone vaping some fruity concoction that was almost gaggingly sweet. So thereās that.
I would challenge someone to walk into an area a couple hours after someoneās been vaping for a while and identify it. As opposed to smoking. Or for someone more than 10 feet away to notice it, unless someone is doing something totally obnoxious. Would a rental car company know youād been vaping?
Seems like most of the kids that are picking this up donāt even have tobacco or nicotine in their vaper. So banning tobacco does what? And on what basis would a school ban it?
Regular chain-vaper chiming in!
Yes, you can still smell it (if itās a flavor that leaves a smell), but thatās pretty much it. This study shows that the contaminant level in vapor is minimal-to-nonexistant to begin with, and another study specifically on exhaled/second-hand vapor determined that there is no nicotine in exhaled vapor.
A good place to look for studies and whatnot on the topic is the CASAA (Consumer Advocates for Smokefree Alternatives Association) page.
Absolutely true. The āExtreme Iceā menthol flavor I use as my all-day vape doesnāt leave any smell trace at all, since itās basically just menthol crystals in the nicotine solution. I have another juice at home thatās a fruit mix, and thatās generally smellable for a period of time after I take a few puffs.
Not unless you spill the juice everywhere inside the car. Thereās no āresidueā like youād get with regular cigs, and whatever smell your juice might have will either have dissipated or make them think you just used some form of air freshener.
Interesting, thanks @Woodman and @e4tmyl33t, Thatās good info. It could have easily been the flavor choice that made me nauseousā¦ Iām somewhat allergic to coconut, and I would not be surprised if there was some in the juice my friend was using. There was definitely a lingering smell for a week or so after she crashed on my couch for a month. (Because she couldnāt smell it, she didnāt think Iād know she was vaping in the houseā¦ wrong.)
I can imagine coconut lingering for some time. Clove juices tend to do the same thing.
Back to @PadrinoFive7 's post - seems like calling things ātobacco freeā would not, in itself, prohibit vaping. Maybe there was more to the memo?
I have seen places declare themselves tobacco-free, which means āno chew, no snuff, no smoking.ā Hospital comes to mind, and the health pavilion run by a hospital system.
I simultaneously hate this kind of crap, and understand it. Companies should be allowed to put whatever restrictions on employment they want to, but I would hope that someone somewhere along the line would use their brain.
Unfortunately, common sense is dead all over the place. Apparently leaving an 11 year old in a car for a few minutes is now illegal. When people say it takes a village to raise a child they donāt mean to call the damn police, they mean itās everyoneās responsibility to make sure they are safe. Which means since you can see that the kid is ok you are providing your service of checking on them, and thatās it. You donāt have to do anything.
Some of the bans on vaping Iāve heard are for the children. Because those little scamps will copy everything. Shit, they might vape while they are sipping daddyās whisky, hurry stop them! As if they canāt just get regular smokes right now anyway. Unless their dealer is jumped and killed by the police or something.
By all logic and common sense, youād think so, but since itās got (the potential to have) nicotine in it most people consider it a ātobacco productā regardless.
Try walking around with a pipe in your mouth.
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We banned vaping at the clinic because if any of the nicotine-containing liquid drips out (like a broken e-cig, someone has a refill leaking, etc) and an animal sniffs/licks/contacts it, they could die. And because we havenāt seen enough pure studies of the secondhand effects to be sure. But mostly the death stuff.
And in case you worry we will be banning everything, we still allow open and concealed carry in our clinic. Especially since some of the doctors and staff have CCW permits. 
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Very little danger in second-hand gun lube, or even, second-hand hollowpoint. Or would that be first-hand? 
That reminds me, I need to get and start practicing with HP. Everything in the house right now except the 30/30 ammo is FMJ, and Iād rather not shoot through the neighbors in the unlikely event of a home invasion.
MSUAlexis, I appreciate the reason youāve banned them. My issue is when itās a hand wavium, ābad thingsā reason. OTOH, I also believe businesses can set their own policy for whatever reason. Doesnāt mean I canāt bitch about them, and I donāt even smoke anymore.
I need to get my CCW, it would make going to the range so much easier. I could have my pistols up front and safe instead of in the very back of the van sliding around.
Yep. Totally valid and respectable reason (doubly so since Iām a dumbass and lost the airflow control screw for my rebuildable tank, so if thereās a change in air pressure it does leak slightly)
So do I. Iāve gotten 2 pistols from my father that I should really go and practice with, as well. (One Browning Hi-Power 9mm and one Para Compact .45)
Boeing went tobacco-free in 2008 in a move that was roundly ignored. People walked a few dozen yards off the property line and smoked on the sidewalk or behind the parking garage. Then, the hammer came down a few months later. I still have the e-mail:
From: GRP-HOU-SITE-OPS
To: GRP-HOU-ALL
Subject: Employees are expected to follow the Tobacco-free Workplace Policy
Boeingās Houston site has been tobacco-free since November 10, 2008. As you are
aware, Boeingās Tobacco-Free Workplace policy prohibits use of
tobacco products on our site. Since our site adopted the policy,
employees continue to be generally supportive and responsive.
This policy, however, is not meant to encourage employees to leave our
premises. Employees should refrain from smoking on neighboring
properties. This activity creates potential liability concerns for both
the company and the individual employees. It may also cause disruptions
in work schedules and create inefficiencies by keeping employees away
from their jobs for extended periods of time.
Employees must not use tobacco products on private property adjacent to Boeingās
property lines. Employees are also encouraged to work with their
managers to determine a schedule of breaks and lunches that follow
current work schedules and will have the least impact to the team or
organization. If employees opt to leave company property during work
hours, they should ensure they understand their managerās expectations
regarding appropriate time charging.
Corrective action, in accordance with PRO-1909, must be taken for employees who, 1)
continue to use tobacco products on Boeing or private property
adjacent to Boeingās property lines, 2) spend unauthorized time out
of the work area, 3) leave company premises without authorization, 4)
fail to observe established work schedules, and 5) those who violate any
provisions of the Tobacco-Free Workplace policy.
Employees can find useful information related to the policy at the Tobacco-Free
Workplace Web site; including frequently asked questions and answers,
the Houston site property boundaries and Health and Wellness resources
such as the āQuit for Lifeā and āYour Smoke Free Futureā programs.
If you have any questions or concerns, please talk with your manager.
This just led to people doing stuff like getting in their cars and driving around the parking garage while smoking.
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